BREAKING NEWS: NIV to be updated!

I (Peter Kirk) just received from Zondervan a letter announcing that the NIV Bible is to be updated in 2011. The announcement is at this website. Here are some extracts from the full text of the announcement:

The global board of Biblica today announced its intention to update the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible, the first time it has been revised since 1984. The Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), the independent body of global biblical scholars solely responsible for the translation of the world's most popular Bible, is slated to finish its revision late next year, with publication in 2011. ...

"We want to reach English speakers across the globe with a Bible that is accurate, accessible and that speaks to its readers in a language they can understand," said Keith Danby, Global President and CEO of Biblica. ...

"As time passes and English changes, the NIV we have at present is becoming increasingly dated. If we want a Bible that English speakers around the world can understand, we have to listen to, and respect, the vocabulary they are using today."

BBB readers and friends have their opportunity to contribute to the new edition, as explained by Douglas Moo, chairman of the Committee on Bible Translation:

The CBT also reiterated its longstanding openness to receiving input from both external scholars and regular Bible readers.
"The CBT has always proactively sought peer review from qualified biblical scholars, linguists and English stylists and it continues to do so," said Moo. "Every suggestion presented in writing to the CBT before the end of this calendar year will be considered for the 2011 edition of the NIV Bible. The CBT also values the feedback it receives from NIV Bible readers – be they scholars or not – on the comprehensibility of the text as we continue in our efforts to create a translation that offers English speakers across the world accurate understanding and unobstructed access to God's unchanging word."

I understand that this new edition is intended to replace both the 1984 NIV and the 2005 TNIV. I hope to be able to confirm this soon.

UPDATE: There is also an article about this in USA Today, a rather strange article I thought, which concludes with the following:

The T-NIV will be taken off the market when the new Bible is released.

For the 2011 edition, more than a dozen scholars will "review every single gender-related decision we have made and make sure we are putting God's unchanging word into English people are actually using," says Douglas Moo, chairman of the Committee on Bible Translation.

Gender issues aren't the only areas for re-examination, says Moo. "In the 1984 NIV when Paul says (in 2 Corinthians 11:25) 'I was stoned,' we changed it to 'pelted with stones' to avoid the laughter in the junior high row of the church."

While the committee has always called on scholars from numerous faiths and disciplines, they're also now calling for input from the general public at a special new website, NIVBible2011.com.

"I can't predict what will happen with gender usage. My guess would be we made a lot of the right decisions for the T-NIV but every one of those is open for consideration. We may even be returning to what we had in the 1984 NIV," says Moo.

Well, I certainly hope they don't return to what was in the 1984 NIV, which includes clear gender-related errors like this one. But I would be very surprised if they do. Nevertheless I'm sure there will be a lot of wrangling over the next two years about whether to follow NIV or TNIV on debatable matters.

Read The Books of The Bible in 2009

Today I was invited to "attend" an event on Facebook. I accepted. The event is to join with others in reading the Bible through in a new format during 2009 and discussing it. The format is The Books of The Bible (TNIV text) which we have previously blogged about. This format removes chapter and verse divisions which can hinder us from hearing the text as closely as possible to how the original hearers did (they didn't have chapter and text divisions either). This format arranges the Bible in a more chronological order than the traditional order found in Catholic and Protestant Bible versions. And it arranges the Old Testament more closely to how the books of the Hebrew Bible were arranged.

I invite you to join me at this event. Those of you who are already members of Facebook can attend the event by going to this Internet address:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=40536860035

If you are not a member of Facebook, you can join for free during a short sign-up process. I do not know if you can attend the event from another website if you are not a member of Facebook and do not with to become one. But I can let you know if there will be any way to attend outside of Facebook.

Here is the invitation from The Books of The Bible folks:

Read The Books of The Bible in 2009: Genesis

Join us in reading and discussing the books of the Bible in 2009! We're starting with Genesis, and we hope you'll join us for as many books as you'd like--hopefully all of them.

We'll be using an edition of the Scriptures called "The Books of The Bible" that the International Bible Society has specially formatted for reading with greater understanding and enjoyment. The text is in a single column, and there are no chapters or verses or section headings. The book of Genesis in this format can be downloaded free as a PDF file at
http://thebooksofthebible.info/sample.php.

(To find out more about this edition, visit www.thebooksofthebible.info. You can order a copy of the complete Bible at http://www.ibsdirect.com/p-574-tniv-the-books-of-the-bible-tbotb.aspx.)

To take part in this event, read through the introduction to Genesis (pp. 5-6) and the book itself (pp. 7-71) any time between January 1-14. Take a break wherever you want along the way. (At an average adult reading speed, it should take about three hours to read the whole book.) Join in the discussion with your questions, comments and observations. What is it like to read Genesis as a continuous narrative? What strikes you as you read? What bothers you? What would you like explained (if possible)?

The discussion of Genesis will be led by the Rev. Dr. Christopher Smith, a consulting editor for "The Books of The Bible."

We look forward to reading and discussing Genesis together! (Please pass this invitation along to others--we'd love to have them join us, too.)

Event Info

Host:	De-versify
Type:	Education - Study Group
Network:	Global

Time and Place

Start Time:	Thursday, January 1, 2009 at 12:05am
End Time:	Wednesday, January 14, 2009 at 11:55pm
Location:	Wherever you like to read

TNIV top Bible

Blogger Byron has the TNIV at the top of his list of Bible versions he uses most.

Andy Stanley Endorses the TNIV; Calls It His "Standard Text"

TNIV on the BBC, and at ETS

The Bible Experience, based on TNIV, has made it into this BBC report on alternative Bibles. The wording in the Lord's Prayer "You're the Boss, God, and will be for ever, innit?" is not from TNIV, but from one of the other featured versions, The Bible in Cockney.

TNIV also features to a large extent in the Evangelical Theological Society talk by Mark Strauss on "Why the English Standard Version (ESV) should not become the standard English version", which has been published at Better Bibles Blog, in 13 parts listed here.

Thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15:21 & Hebrews 2:6

Greetings Mike,

Welcome to this blog. Let me state upfront that I am a layman. I make my living in the electrical utility business. I am the formally uneducated member of this forum. I am not a scholar. I do all my study in English though I do have many foreign language tools and use them a lot. If I misstate anything about the original languages, Wayne or someone else will come to the rescue and correct me. I say all that to encourage everyone that reads this sight that you don't have to be scholar to determine if the TNIV is a trustworthy translation. I'm at a disadvantage compared to our other contributors here in these areas. However, I'm glad to be a member of this forum as a lay representative.

You stated . . .

Where it changes man to human. So instead of getting a parallel between the first man, Adam and Jesus (obviously also a man) we get something that for me seems a bit more mucked up.

The TNIV is not the first Bible to do this with 1 Corinthians 15:21 nor is it the first with Hebrews 2:6.

In 1 Corinthians 15:21, similar language is used in the:

• New Revised Standard Version
• New American Bible.

In Hebrews 2:6, the list is even more expansive:

• Contemporary English Version
• Good News Translation
• The Message
• New Century Version
• New Living Translation (in the front half of the verse only)
• New Revised Standard Version

None of these draws as much attention as the TNIV probably because the TNIV has the greatest potential to influence the Evangelical community. Also, only the NRSV has similar changes in both passages as the TNIV has.

1 Corinthians 15:21

I don't think any parallel is "mucked up" by the TNIV. The first rule I would advise anyone of in dealing with the differences in the TNIV and other translations is to never read a Bible verse. Always read at least a paragraph or more. For brevity's sake, let me just include the next verse . . .

^21For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead^ comes also through a human being. ^22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Co 15:21-22). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Verse 21 speaks of a human being (singular) through which death comes and a human being (singular again) though which the resurrection comes. Verse 22 makes it clear who each of those humans are. Adam is the human through which death came and Jesus is the human through which the resurrection comes.

Along with the concept of never reading a single Bible verse, I'd like to recommend what can be called the paraphrase test. Many people are concerned about the choices in translating gender accuracy. Just because a word is masculine in Greek (or Hebrew) doesn't mean that it applies to males only. It sounds like you've been reading on this a bit and so you are probably aware of this. The paraphrase test is a great test particularly for people, like myself, who are not scholars. When we see man used, even the non-scholar can recognize that sometimes this references the human race, sometimes it refers to males (i.e. a gender reference). With the paraphrase test, use males in every passage in which there is a question and see how if it makes sense. Most of the time this clears up the problem. I'd encourage you to read the entire paragraph from verse 20 through verse 28. The male-ness of Adam and the male-ness of Jesus is not the issue. It's their humanity that it is the issue. This can be seen in theological issues. When he speak of Jesus as the God-man we usually define him as fully God and fully man. The point of calling him fully man is that we are pointing out that he was fully human. The theological point isn't that he is fully male. Jesus didn't come to redeem only males, but both males and females. Thus, it's better to describe him as fully God, fully human.

Hebrews 2:6

Hebrews 2:6 can be solved in similar fashion. First of all, read the context. I would encourage you to read all the way from 2:5 to the end of the chapter. Is Jesus' male-ness the issue, or is it his humanity that is the issue? I think it becomes obvious that his humanity is the issue here.

The Greek in this passage even bounces back in forth in its gender use. In verse 14, παιδία (children in English) is in the neutral. In the very next verse it tells us he will free those who were held in slavery (look at a TNIV or even the very formal NASB). Those is the Greek word τούτους, which is masculine.

One other bit of research a person can do in this passage is look at the Old Testament passage which is being quoted. It is Psalm 8 in this case. Since the TNIV is what is in question here, let's look the Psalm from the NASB . . .

1 O Lord, our Lord,

How majestic is Your name in all the earth,

Who have displayed Your splendor above the heavens!

2 From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength

Because of Your adversaries,

To make the enemy and the revengeful cease.

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,

The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

4 What is man that You take thought of him,

And the son of man that You care for him?

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God,

And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;

You have put all things under his feet,

7 All sheep and oxen,

And also the beasts of the field,

8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea,

Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

9 O Lord, our Lord,

How majestic is Your name in all the earth!

New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Ps 8:1-9). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

It is clear to me that in Psalm 8, man is a reference to humanity, i.e. the human race, not just the males. Thus, I have no problem with the TNIV rendering of the quote in Hebrews 2.

This is a good point to stop and let you comment or ask questions.

Grace & peace to you.

questions from a visitor

My wife and I returned home a couple nights ago from two weeks of travel. This morning I transferred my email messages received on the trip to my desktop computer. Among the messages I discovered the following questions from a visitor named Mike:

Hi everyone, I somehow stumbled on this blog from the accordance web forums, to Rick's site, to this site.

And a long story short, I had been noticing on Bill Mounce's blog how he seems to praise the TNIV for it's adept translation. I know all the hoopla over the gender issues and why I would say (IMHO) I don't agree with some of them. But I am curious about specifically:

1 Corinthians 15:21 (which also seems to have a similar oddity in Heb 2:6)

Where it changes man to human. So instead of getting a parallel between the first man, Adam and Jesus (obviously also a man) we get something that for me seems a bit more mucked up.

I have, for the life of me, tried searching the entire internet (though I probably fell a little short) and so that is where this email is coming from. The TNIV.info site is all about worthless unless I just want to read it - while not bad, it doesn't seem to retain the various "question verses" any more.

I'm just curious to your understanding (or any available material one why this was done that way) for these verses. I also tried searching the blog but couldn't find any instance of this being addressed - my apologies if it was.

Thanks,

Mike

Let's answer Mike here on this post to benefit others, as well.

NIV vs. TNIV in the Minor Prophets

You'll want to read Mike Aubrey's analysis of revisions the TNIV made to the NIV in the Minor Prophets.

What Does Rob Bell Think of the TNIV?

Craig Blomberg on recent CBT meetings

Craig Blomberg has just blogged on the recent meetings of the CBT in his post titled Demystifying Bible Translation and Where Our Culture Is with Inclusive Language. The CBT meets annually to consider further revisions to the TNIV.

TNIV Renaissance Bible

Deborah Fulthorp is going to receive one of the free TNIV Renaissance Bible Rick blogged about in the preceding post.

Renaissance Fine Leather TNIV Reference Bible Giveaway

This November, Zondervan will release a new edition of the TNIV Reference Bible with a much higher grade of leather binding. I have a preview of this edition over at This Lamp.

Would you like to get a free copy? Zondervan is giving away ten copies of the Renaissance Fine Leather edition of the TNIV Reference Bible through This Lamp. For details and to see if you qualify, see my post.

Logical connectors in the TNIV

TC Robinson has blogged about "translation elements" (called logical connectors in my tradition, but either term is fine) in the TNIV. He points out how these have been improved in several passages, in revision from the NIV to the TNIV. Click here to read TC's post.

John 14:23 & Genesis 3:16

I've been having a discussion in another place in the internet world with someone who called the TNIV heretical. I thought I'd share some of that here so you can see how to have a conversation with someone and attempt to bring light into the conversation without heat. This conversation is still going on. Sometimes it can be hard, if not impossible, to convince people. However, we need to conduct ourselves properly.

Heretical, the term this other individual used, is a strong term. It's not one I use often of anyone or anybody. I have a book that is out of print entitled Orthodox and Heresy by Robert Bowman. On page 50, Bowman presents a definition that I defer to:

A teaching which directly opposes the essentials of the Christian faith, so that true Christians must divide themselves from those who hold it.

I think that is fair and useful. For what I believe to be essential or non-essential check out this post at my personal blog. I don't think Bible translations is in that category.

When he stated that the TNIV is heretical, the first thing I did was ask how do you define heretical? He defined heresy as that which opposes traditional church doctrine and then he told me that the TNIV makes God gender neutral.

I could have made a declaration at this point, but often the best way is to proceed with questions. I asked him How did you come to the conclusion that the TNIV makes God gender neutral? Can you show me some verses where it does this?

He backed off that position at that point. He came back saying that in the original version it did but not in the current edition. Now Wayne and the guys can correct me, but usually translations have extra copyright dates when they do revisions. The TNIV I have has only two dates and it isn't due to revisions being made. One date is the New Testament and the other was the Old Testament. I have, to my knowledge, the first published edition. Anyway I let that point slide. Sometimes you have to pick and choose what points to discuss.

He held on to the heresy charge and brought up three verses: John 14:23; 1 Corinthians 14:28; Revelation 22:19. These are passages where the third person, singular, masculine terms in the NIV and other translation are changed to third person plurals (John 14:23 & 1 Corinthians 14:28) or second person singulars (Revelation 22:19). The point being as you all know to demonstrate that these verses in their application don't apply only to males, but to females also. For this he claims that the TNIV is heretical.

My counter has been to ask him if the KJV is heretical when it translates masculine terms in the original languages as gender neutral terms in English. I've been doing this by talking about John 14:23. The TNIV reads . . .

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 14:23). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

The NIV reads . . .

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 (electronic ed.) (Jn 14:23). Grand Rapids: Zondervan.

The KJV is even more masculine by translating τις as a man rather than anyone at the beginning of the verse. Even the NASB and NKJV use anyone at that point.

I asked a couple questions. One was to ask him if females love Jesus and obey his teaching, will the Father love them and make his home with them? He said he was 99.99% sure that He would. His counter was to ask if I believe the Holy Spirit and if He needed correction from 21st century scholars. He claims it changes meaning.

I asked how he can possibly justify the KJV. In Genesis 3:16, the KJV tells us that in sorrow Eve would bear children. The Hebrew is masculine. I asked him if the Holy Spirit needed correction from 17th century scholars. By his own approach the KJV should read that in sorrow Eve would bring forth sons. If I used his approach, then the KJV changed the meaning. Maybe Eve would not bring forth daughters in sorrow. Yet, the KJV translators translated that masculine term as the gender neutral term children. I think the KJV translators made the correct choice and that the TNIV translators are just continuing by making careful choices as to whether a text is applicable only to males, or both males and females.

So how can he charge the TNIV with heresy but not the KJV? Now he claims it's the motive. At that point I asked him if he knows who the translators of the TNIV are, if he's tried corresponding with them, and how did he determine their motive. Judging motives is dangerous ground to cover. I can look at a finished product and judge the product. Judging motives is something I think we should leave to Jesus.

There is no heresy. I hope this helps illustrate how to counter someone who opposes the TNIV. When someone attacks the TNIV, step back and let them make the claims while you ask questions. It keeps the other person in the hot seat and keeps you out. It makes them do all the work. You can relax and enjoy yourself. The only time I brought data into the conversation was to use examples from the KJV to demonstrate that if he wants to be consistent then he must charge the KJV with heresy.

de-versify chat

We have blogged in the past about The Books of the Bible (TBOTB), an edition of the TNIV which formats the text without verse numbers and arranges the text more in chronological order as well as closer to the order in the Hebrew Bible.

May 9 there will be on online chat by the Bible Design Group that has been designing TBOTB and promoting de-versifying. The chat will be on Facebook at this Internet address:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=16104361781

The chat will take place between 4-5 pm Mountain Time (6-7 Eastern).

If you are not a member of Facebook, it takes only two or three minutes to become one. You are invited to join the chat and ask questions of the Bible Design team, or give them other comments and ideas which can help promote de-versified Bibles for better Bible study.

Bibles which say what they mean

David McKay blogs about Psalm 7:12, 13 where the TNIV translates more literally than the ESV:

Gontroppo's Blog: Bibles which say what they mean

Mark Bertrand on Allan's TNIV

Mark Bertrand is a connoisseur of Bibles that are packaged well, good bindings, page layout, etc. He has found an edition of the TNIV that meets his high standards. Mark writes:

there is an edition of the TNIV I can recommend wholeheartedly -- and not surprisingly it comes from R. L. Allan's. The Allan's TNIV is a 4.5 x 6.5 inch hardback, about .875 inches thick, featuring a small print, double-column text. The cover is available in four styles: black highland goatskin, imperial purple highland goatskin, cardinal red goatskin, and British tan calfskin. These sell for £50. There's also a French morocco edition for £40. A tabbed closure keeps the silk-lined cover secure. According to the description at Bibles-Direct.com, these editions have two ribbon markers; mine only came with one.

Mark goes into a lot more detail about this edition and then concludes:

Having said all this, the question is: would I recommend the Allan's TNIV? I would. If you're using the TNIV extensively, then you'll probably want the TNIV Reference Bible as a main edition (you can always have that bonded leather cover replaced, and the font isn't as ghastly as I make out once you're used to it). But for everyday use -- especially carry -- the Allan's TNIV is the best available. If you don't use the TNIV but would like to check it out, perhaps the thought of an Allan's edition is such an usual yet practical format will sway you.

All I know is, the next time I get an e-mail complaining there are no "nice" editions of the TNIV available, I will have to disagree. The Allan's TNIV is superb. I'll be reading a lot of more of the TNIV, I suspect -- assuming my wife doesn't confiscate this edition first!

Karen Jobes paper

The Zondervan blog has a new post about a 2007 ETS paper written by Karen Jobes, a member of the TNIV translation team. The paper is titled "Bible Translation as Bilingual Quotation" and is available as a PDF download.

For a summary of the paper, read the Zondervan blog post and a followup post by John Hobbins.

TNIV sales rank

TNIV sales continue in the top 10 for Bibles sold each month at Christian booksellers. Here are rankings for Bibles sales last month:

FEBRUARY 2008

BIBLE TRANSLATIONS - Based on Dollar Sales

1 New International Version
2 King James Version
3 New King James Version
4 New Living Translation
5 New American Standard Bible update
6 Today’s New International Version
7 Holman Christian Standard Bible
8 The Message
9 English Standard Version
10 Amplified Bible

BIBLE TRANSLATIONS - Based on Unit Sales

1 New International Version
2 King James Version
3 New King James Version
4 New Living Translation
5 English Standard Version
6 Holman Christian Standard Bible
7 New American Standard Bible update
8 The Message
9 Today’s New International Version
10 Reina Valera 1960 (Spanish)

updated bookshelf

I have just updated our bookshelf in the margin of this blog. Blog visitors Mark and Julie let us know that a book on New Testament theology by I. Howard Marshall uses the TNIV as its Bible text. Also, some of the images of books I had previously posted were no longer available from their original Internet addresses. I think I have all the images fixed now.

If you know of other books, not on our bookshelf, which use the TNIV as their default Bible text, please let us know. You can contact us at the e-mail address listed in the margin: bible dot tniv at gmail dot com.